Just happened to be watching Seoige & O’Shea today, while relaxing after a late lunch. They had a brief discussion on the Irish language and one of the guests was one Paul MacDonnell from the Open Republic Institute who should be no stranger to those with any knowledge of the political side of the Irish language movement. Apart from his trousers being too short I thought he came off sounding like someone with a chip on his shoulder. It was quite funny to watch.
Anyway this post isn’t about him. One of the issues they very very briefly mentioned was whether or not someone is more Irish if they speak the language. I was very disappointed that they didn’t actually explore this point because it should be stated clearly that Irish people who speak Polish as their first language, mar shampla, are just as Irish as someone from Corca Duibhne who speak an Ghaeilge as their first language. It’s not that they insinuated otherwise on S & O’S it’s just that they didn’t discuss the issue at all after briefly mentioning it.
Also, it got me to wondering. I have never heard (or read) an Irish speaker tell someone they are less Irish because they don’t speak the language. So where does this come from? Is it simply English speaker’s perception or are they assuming this is what an Irish speaker thinks? None of this was covered properly on the program today. I wouldn’t be gone on Seoige & O’Shea to be honest.
It’s the same in Wales, with many non-Welsh speakers getting very defensive when you mention language as though you’re doubting their Welshness. This perception is convenient for some language haters who like to claim the langugae is divisive. Having said that there are a tiny minority in Wales who do think that you’re not Welsh unless you speak the language.
These are normally the type who write letters to the Western Mail (The ‘National’ paper of Wales – owned by Trinity Mirror), and wear trousers that are to too tight/short for them*
*I’m not in anyway claiming that Paul MacDonnell is such a person, just a coincidense. i’ve no idea who he is. What exactly were they discussing/say about Irish then – you don’t seem to mention that?
Níor chuala mise an tuairim aisteach úd ach ó bhearloirí chomh maith. Aréir arís, dála an scéil.
Cuireann sé cantal orm, má ligim dó.
d’aontóinn le h-Aonghus faoi seo.
As na Béarlóirí amháin a thagann sé, agus de ghnáth is iad na Béarlóirí go mbeadh gráin acusan don teanga na daoine a bheadh ag rá rudaí mar sin.
Sílim go mbraitheann siad íseal ó thaobh gradaim i measc daoine le teangacha eile.
is rud truamhéalach é i ndáiríre
Just read on a Welsh form that some guy (probably the one mentioned above seeing as I’ve Googled ‘Open Republic Insitiute’) was slagging off Gaeilge, saying it’s a disgrace that his taxes goes towards the langugae and that it shouldn’t be taiught at school or something?
Yeah Rhys that happens a lot, where is this fourm. have you got a link.
Rhys
“there are a tiny minority in Wales who do think that you’re not Welsh unless you speak the language.”
It takes all kinds I suppose, we can’t all think the same or life would be boring
“What exactly were they discussing/say about Irish then – you don’t seem to mention that?”
Not a whole lot to be honest. It was a poor discussion IMO. They were generally talking about how people view Irish these days and how more people speak it than at any time since the Famine. The “pro”-guest was telling how 1.5-something million people speak it (which isn’t quite accurate) while at the other end MacDonnell was arguing against Government support for the language.
“Just read on a Welsh form that some guy … was slagging off Gaeilge, saying it’s a disgrace that his taxes goes towards the langugae”
This is the typical line from Open Republic folk esp MacDonnell. He wasn’t ‘too’ negative during the interview until near then end when he started to get angry and basically said that he doesn’t want his tax money supporting Irish. yet the same man has an interest in the arts and seems to have no problem with our tax money supporting that!
aonghus, mo dhuine
I suppose there’s little point letting it get to you. Irish, like Welsh, will always have it’s opponents unfortunately.
Nothing new beingd iscussed then Maca! The claim that 1.5m speaking the language (as opposed to understanding it?) does seem rather high considering the depressing stories we hear here in Wales about Gaeilge. A figure of 0.6 million is banded about in Wales which is at it’s highest in 30-40 years, but there’s a danger that it’s over exaggerated and put’s us in a false sense of security – do you think the same is true in Ireland?
Mo dhuine
Here’s a link to the commnet by Mici(not his real name!) which appears in a thread discussing changing Dingle (back?) to An Daingean. Mici has a blog which he’s writting about his time in Gaillimh (but if you don’t understand Welsh, it’s mainly about the lock-ins he’s having at his current bar job!).
Maes-e is quite a popular forum, the busiest independent website in Welsh. It’s creator Nic Dafis has really been encouraging others to blog in Welsh and now there’s a busy Welsh language blogging scene at http://www.blogiadur.com. I’ve noticed a few Gaeilge posts on Irishblogs.com, is there a seperate site that only includes Gaeilge blogs? Not that it’s a bad thing that both languages are together. The creator of Blogiadur.com has set up Blogcymru.com for English language blogs from Wales, while some Irish guys (behind Irishblogs.com) have set up Welshblogs.com which mixes the two.
Rhys
“The claim that 1.5m speaking the language (as opposed to understanding it?) does seem rather high”
We had a census a while back and over 1.5M claimed to be competent in Irish although how many of those are fully fluent in the language is unknown. What’s certain is that 1.5M are NOT speaking it on a regular basis, if they were Irish would be in quite a healthy state.
From wikipedia:
“out of the Republic’s more than 4.3 million citizens there are approximately 1.6 million people claiming a self-reported competence in Irish … Of these, 350,000 reported using Irish every day, 155,000 weekly, 585,000 less often, 460,000 never, and 30,000 didn’t state how often. Of the 350,000 who were reported to use Irish every day, the majority are schoolchildren who use it during their classes in Irish”
“do you think the same is true in Ireland?”
It’s hard to know. Personally I don’t like such figures thrown about because it is misleading. I’d love if there were 1.5m fluent speakers but there aren’t.
I’d prefer we focus on the real positives, such as the growth of Gaelscoileanna.
“I’ve noticed a few Gaeilge posts on Irishblogs.com, is there a seperate site that only includes Gaeilge blogs?”
Not that I know of. Hmm, might just have to set one up…
Rhys
Don’t think there’s a specific site for Irish Blogs
http://kinja.com/user/gaeilge
http://www.irishblogs.ie/categories/gaeilge/
Just Gaeilge sections as shown above
It would be class if there was one. But there’s not much people interested in blogging in Irish, or speaking it for that matter.
Actually I like the Idea that the Gaeilge blogs mix in with the English language blogs
“It would be class if there was one.”
I’ve started to look into what would be needed to set one up. I also like the mix of Irish & English blogs on Irishblogs but someone people may like one central place for all Irish language blogs. Having one would still be better than not having one IMO.
The census in Wales doesn’t ask about usage, only abilty to speak, read and write, so does’nt give acurate picture.
I’d say mixing blogs is probably best. Have you seen http://www.tirnamblog.com? I don’t know how similar both langugaes are.
Rhys
Yeah Gàidhlig and Gaeilge are very similar
I find I can read a Gàidhlig blog and get the meaning very easily.
Diolch for the link Rhys
Maca
I’d agree that a Blaganna Gaeilge site would be well worth having.
Rhys, thx for the link, bookmarked!
I have difficulty enough with Irish so Scottish Gaelic poses serious problems for me
but they are quite similar as MD said.
Seeing as your a bit handy with these sort of things, why not do some sort of mash up ‘hub, that not only includes blog posts from Gaeilge blogs, but also Flickr photo’s with defined gaeilge tags, links to other Gaeilge only sites like forums etc.
Ideas for dedicated forums in gaeilge
One purely for discussing gaelic games
One for parents, discussing general issues (where to take them for day’s out, good shops/websites for buying clothes, books, toys etc). This would bring Gaelige speakers of a certian age (20-40) together throughout ireland. Language issues will inevitable be discussed.
Both existed in Welsh (but for rugby rather than GG) and were popular, but neither administraors relaised work infolved and are down at the moments.
I don’t know if such thing exists as a gaeilge music scene (I’m thinking alt/rock/pop/rap rather than folk or trad). A good example in Welsh is http://www.curiad.org which poeple submitt gigs, which are displayed on a calendr and a google maps mashup called ‘gigfap’ (gig map). it also includes bands and venue profiles and news, all available via RSS feeds. Owner might be willing to share code if asked.
Hi Rhys,.
Good ideas. It’s something i’d love to take on if I had the time and energy, too big a project for me though. There already are a number of discussion forums in Irish as it is, though certainly a new one would be no harm.
I’d always thought of creating a central hub site for Irish learners, a place where you could have tons of Irish lessons, links to tons of other sites plus forum etc. Huge task though!!